Posts by Disillusioned JW

43

Research paper on Effects of Shunning

by peacefulpete in

after being around this site for 21 years now, i've heard many recount their stories and feelings.

many times i can immediately relate but other times they seem to have had a very different experience with the church.

i'm sure that is because not only are all of us different in personality, but congregations and family dynamics vary as well.

Disillusioned JW

slimboyfat, their literature frequently tells their readers not to question anything of the WT and its governing body's doctrines and instructions That is an attempt to control the minds of their readers, and is an attempt to prevent people from thinking critically in certain matters. That sort of behavior of the WT is what has disturbed me the most about the WT and its religion. It disturbed me from my early childhood onward, because I value the right to think for myself, to think critically, and to think logically. Being in the religion and reading the WT's literature crippled my ability to think critically about what the WT and others (such as writers of other books, some claims of the media, and some politicians) say.

43

Research paper on Effects of Shunning

by peacefulpete in

after being around this site for 21 years now, i've heard many recount their stories and feelings.

many times i can immediately relate but other times they seem to have had a very different experience with the church.

i'm sure that is because not only are all of us different in personality, but congregations and family dynamics vary as well.

Disillusioned JW

The WT is very effective at controlling the minds of others, but where did they learn how to do such? Did they learn it from books? Did they get ideas for it from the Bible? Did they learn it from cults? Did they study of the occult and learn it from such? How did they obtain so much power of influence over others? Did they figure it out on their own? Is some secret group/entity (or powerful force) actually controlling the WT and if so, how long has such been happening?

43

Research paper on Effects of Shunning

by peacefulpete in

after being around this site for 21 years now, i've heard many recount their stories and feelings.

many times i can immediately relate but other times they seem to have had a very different experience with the church.

i'm sure that is because not only are all of us different in personality, but congregations and family dynamics vary as well.

Disillusioned JW

The study says the following. "The current study also has several limitations. Participants were recruited from online social media forums for former JW members. The selection process was not random and relied on voluntary self-identification. Participants in such forums may be more reactive and polarized than the general population of former JW members (Farrell et al., 2008)."

43

Research paper on Effects of Shunning

by peacefulpete in

after being around this site for 21 years now, i've heard many recount their stories and feelings.

many times i can immediately relate but other times they seem to have had a very different experience with the church.

i'm sure that is because not only are all of us different in personality, but congregations and family dynamics vary as well.

Disillusioned JW

Interestingly the study says the following regarding how many JWs there are. "The Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society—the legal entity of JW—reports over 8 million members worldwide in 240 countries (Watch Tower and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, 2021a). However, studies examining member counts have found that the number of people identifying as JW to be 17.5 million (Lawson & Xydias, 2020)." That makes since sense many people who consider themselves as an inactive one of Jehovah's Witnesses still consider themselves as one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

58

Did the ransom sacrifice even work?

by Sharpie in

shower thought entered my mind the other day... jesus christ.

as per doctrine.

is still alive in heaven right now correct?

Disillusioned JW

I notice that Sea Breeze said the following on page two of this topic thread. "The problem is that modern thinking is infected with Naturalistic Materialism." In actuality Naturalistic Materialism is NOT an infection. The belief in supernaturalism is an infection (an insidious one) of the mind of most humans and that infectious disease has existed throughout recorded history and probably started thousands of years prior. It has been spread from one human mind to another (it is a meme). Paul was heavily infected with the thinking when he spoke of having a battle with the forces of darkness. [Paul died for his false beliefs pertaining to Christ and his idea of the resurrection.] In contrast, I have a battle against teachings of supernaturalism.

Scientists (including David Sinclair, who I mentioned in the Naturalism topic I created) using the mindset of Materialism and Naturalism are now reversing biological ageing! Think of how much could have been accomplished 1000 years ago if humanity had abandoned belief in supernatutalism over 1000 years ago and fully embraced science, naturalism, and scientific materialism! over 1000 years ago! See https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/12/health/reversing-aging-scn-wellness/index.html and https://time.com/6246864/reverse-aging-scientists-discover-milestone/ . Much like one of the WT's Bible (Job 33:25) based teachings (but without the supernaturalism) of flesh returning to youthfulness scientists are now restoring flesh back to youthfulness - but without supernatural means! Lab animals that were made prematurely biologically old have been made biologically young again - by means of Naturalistic Materialism!

Sea Breeze, David Sinclair (a molecular biologist) uses the terminology of information theory in regards to the human genome and epigenome. That is something you can relate to for you also use that terminology. The CNN article article says in part the following.

'The combined experiments, published for the first time Thursday in the journal Cell, challenge the scientific belief aging is the result of genetic mutations that undermine our DNA, creating a junkyard of damaged cellular tissue that can lead to deterioration, disease and death.

“It’s not junk, it’s not damage that causes us to get old,” said Sinclair, who described the work last year at Life Itself, a health and wellness event presented in partnership with CNN.

“We believe it’s a loss of information — a loss in the cell’s ability to read its original DNA so it forgets how to function — in much the same way an old computer may develop corrupted software. I call it the information theory of aging.”

Jae-Hyun Yang, a genetics research fellow in the Sinclair Lab who coauthored the paper, said he expects the findings “will transform the way we view the process of aging and the way we approach the treatment of diseases associated with aging.”

... “The astonishing finding is that there’s a backup copy of the software in the body that you can reset,” Sinclair said. “We’re showing why that software gets corrupted and how we can reboot the system by tapping into a reset switch that restores the cell’s ability to read the genome correctly again, as if it was young.”

It doesn’t matter if the body is 50 or 75, healthy or wracked with disease, Sinclair said. Once that process has been triggered, “the body will then remember how to regenerate and will be young again, even if you’re already old and have an illness. Now, what that software is, we don’t know yet. At this point, we just know that we can flip the switch.” '

The Time magazine article says in part the following.

'In the Cell paper, Sinclair and his team report that not only can they age mice on an accelerated timeline, but they can also reverse the effects of that aging and restore some of the biological signs of youthfulness to the animals. That reversibility makes a strong case for the fact that the main drivers of aging aren’t mutations to the DNA, but miscues in the epigenetic instructions that somehow go awry. Sinclair has long proposed that aging is the result of losing critical instructions that cells need to continue functioning, in what he calls the Information Theory of Aging. “Underlying aging is information that is lost in cells, not just the accumulation of damage,” he says. “That’s a paradigm shift in how to think about aging. “

His latest results seem to support that theory. It’s similar to the way software programs operate off hardware, but sometimes become corrupt and need a reboot, says Sinclair. “If the cause of aging was because a cell became full of mutations, then age reversal would not be possible,” he says. “But by showing that we can reverse the aging process, that shows that the system is intact, that there is a backup copy and the software needs to be rebooted.”

In the mice, he and his team developed a way to reboot cells to restart the backup copy of epigenetic instructions, essentially erasing the corrupted signals that put the cells on the path toward aging. They mimicked the effects of aging on the epigenome by introducing breaks in the DNA of young mice. (Outside of the lab, epigenetic changes can be driven by a number of things, including smoking, exposure to pollution and chemicals.) Once “aged” in this way, within a matter of weeks Sinclair saw that the mice began to show signs of older age—including grey fur, lower body weight despite unaltered diet, reduced activity, and increased frailty.

The rebooting came in the form of a gene therapy involving three genes that instruct cells to reprogram themselves—in the case of the mice, the instructions guided the cells to restart the epigenetic changes that defined their identity as, for example, kidney and skin cells, two cell types that are prone to the effects of aging. These genes came from the suite of so-called Yamanaka stem cells factors—a set of four genes that Nobel scientist Shinya Yamanaka in 2006 discovered can turn back the clock on adult cells to their embryonic, stem cell state so they can start their development, or differentiation process, all over again. Sinclair didn’t want to completely erase the cells’ epigenetic history, just reboot it enough to reset the epigenetic instructions. Using three of the four factors turned back the clock about 57%, enough to make the mice youthful again.

“We’re not making stem cells, but turning back the clock so they can regain their identity,” says Sinclair. “I’ve been really surprised by how universally it works. We haven’t found a cell type yet that we can’t age forward and backward.”

Rejuvenating cells in mice is one thing, but will the process work in humans? That’s Sinclair’s next step, and his team is already testing the system in non-human primates. The researchers are attaching a biological switch that would allow them to turn the clock on and off by tying the activation of the reprogramming genes to an antibiotic, doxycycline. Giving the animals doxycycline would start reversing the clock, and stopping the drug would halt the process. Sinclair is currently lab-testing the system with human neurons, skin, and fibroblast cells, which contribute to connective tissue.'

I encourage people to read both articles in their entirety.

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Disillusioned JW

Fisherman, I said "... are strange, at least to you and I ..." I was telling you that like you I also consider a number of the rabbinical interpretations (such as the ones you mentioned to me) to be strange.I was acknowledging your point about Jewish rabbinical interpretations. I didn't think you knew of the Jewish reasons for considering blood transfusions to be acceptable, but after you mentioned a number of rabbinical interpretations to me it became obvious to me that you know a number of teachings of Rabbinical Judaism.

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Disillusioned JW

Fisherman, you make a good point that a number of Jewish rabbinical interpretations (including those in the Talmud) are strange, at least to you and I and probably to many others who have a non-Jewish JW background.

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Disillusioned JW

Fisherman I do know that the WT currently says that accepting a blood transfusion (such as whole blood, red blood cells, or white blood cells) is not a conscience matter for Christians (and thus also for JWs). When I asked if you would take a blood transfusion in certain circumstances to save your life, I was basically asking how confident are you regarding the WT teaching regarding blood transfusions. I was wondering if you would be willing to adhere to it no matter what, despite you knowing that the WT/JW religion used to forbid life saving organ transplants and life saving vaccines (saying such on scriptural grounds), but that later they said it is a conscience matter. I was also wondering if you might have some doubts, however small, that Jehovah is real and that the Bible his word, and that if you had any such doubts if that would influence your decision about hypothetically accepting a blood transfusion in order to save your life. I think in one of your posts which I read you said you disagree with the WT on some (though not many) teachings. I thus thought you might be open under certain circumstances to disobeying the WT's current prohibition on blood transfusions.

I invite you to consider another approach. I doubt it will persuade you but perhaps it might persuade other readers.

Readers, who originally wrote down the Hebrew Scriptures? It was Jewish people of the Jewish religion (for simplicity, lets just say devout Jews). Right?

For centuries who were the only people who copied the Hebrew Scriptures? It was devout Jews. Right?

For centuries who were the only people who strove to keep the Torah and to adhere to all of the laws the Hebrew Scriptures? It was the devout Jews (and proselytes to the Jewish religion).

Throughout the centuries all the way to the present day, who primarily are the ones who study the Hebrew Scriptures more than other other collection of scriptures? It was and is the devout Jews (and proselytes to the Jewish religion). Right?

So what group of people are most likely to understand correctly the laws of the Hebrew Scriptures? It is the devout Jews right?

What do the devout Jews, and the branches of modern day Judaism, say the Hebrew Scriptures indicate regarding blood transfusions? They say the scriptures indicate that blood transfusions are PERMISSIBLE.

The above information is a major part (in addition to specific scriptural arguments) of the reason why I when I was an independent Christian concluded the WT is wrong regarding their forbidding of blood transfusions. Please consider the following from Jewish non-Christian sources. [In the quotes below I have added some boldface for emphasis.]

https://www.oztorah.com/2012/08/blood-transfusions-ask-the-rabbi/#.Y8Yn7LjBZkg says the following.

"Blood transfusions – Ask the Rabbi

Q. How can Judaism permit blood transfusions when the Torah forbids consuming blood?

A. Often in my rabbinic career I was asked whether there are valid Biblical grounds for the refusal of certain faiths to accept blood transfusions.

The verse these faiths quote is, “Be determined in not consuming the blood, for the blood is the life, and you shall not eat the blood with the flesh” (Deut. 12:23).

The Jewish answer is that this is not what the verse is saying at all. The verse says, l’vil’ti achol ha-dam, “you shall not eat the blood”. In a blood transfusion the blood is not eaten.

Secondly, in an emergency the commandments may be set aside (except for three: the prohibitions of idolatry, adultery and murder). If a blood transfusion is necessary in order to save life, then life takes priority."

https://www.waht.nhs.uk/en-GB/Our-Services1/Non-Clinical-Services1/Chapel/Faith-and-Culture/Judaism/ says the following.

"Introduction

Judaism is an ancient religion that has been practised for over 5,000 years and is based on the belief in one universal God. Jews believe in the Torah (Divine Law), which was revealed to Moses and is viewed as unchanging. They also believe that God is omniscient and will reward the righteous and punish the wicked at the end of time when there will be a resurrection of ail the dead.

Jews must live their lives by certain basic tenets: to carry out the Ten Commandments and to live according to Jewish values based on love of one's neighbour and tolerance of one's fellow human beings.

...

Blood transfusions, transplants and organ donation

Jewish law approves blood transfusion in order to achieve the desired medical outcomes.

Jewish law permits organ donation from dead bodies where there is a high chance of success for the specific recipient. Relatives of a potential donor will wish to consult an appropriate rabbi before making a decision, and this should obviously be facilitated."

https://njop.org/blood-is-life-3/ says the following.

'Blood is Life

January has been labeled National Blood Donor Month, making it an ideal time for Jewish Treats to reflect upon Judaism’s special attitude toward blood.

...
Jewish thought makes very clear that blood is life, and that people must recognize the life-affirming power of blood. For instance, a person is not allowed to consume blood as food or drink, and if an individual deliberately sheds the blood of wild animals or fowl when slaughtering food, the blood must be covered as a sign of respect.

Since human blood cannot be consumed, we might ask whether blood transfusions are permitted. The answer, simply, is yes. A person may both give and receive blood transfusions because Judaism puts the utmost importance on preserving life. For those who need it, Ezekiel’s words: “By your blood shall you live” (Ezekiel 16:6) has some very literal implications.'

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Disillusioned JW

Fisherman if for some reason you were ever to experience massive blood loss (such as from internal bleeding of some kind) and ended up in the hospital intensive care unit as a result, would you refuse to receive a blood transfusion if the doctors said it was the only way to save your life and to prevent massive organ damage? Is your faith (or your belief or conviction) strong enough in the JW's governing body, in Yahweh, and in the Bible for you to be confident that God will resurrect people (including you if you die) to life?

27

So where oh where did Judge Rutherford come up with JW theology?

by Terry in

jw
friends

bits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.

sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.

this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.

Disillusioned JW

Correction: In my prior post where I said '... have access to that library" I meant to says "... have no access to that library".